I will liveblog the Senate ZTE hearing over at Inquirer Current starting at 2:30 pm.
Click here for the liveblogging coverage: Liveblogging the cootie grooming session.
259 thoughts on “Liveblogging will be at Inquirer Current”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
In a newspaper here in Singapore (‘Today’), JDV3 is characterized as the losing party in a government bid.
i agree with the Cat there, on various points. first, in the case of Joey, the fruit can’t have fallen that far from the tree. one very good reason in my mind for why you don’t put your name as a stockholder of a corporation is so that you can go off and own companies in similar or the same line of business, while avoiding conflict of interest allegations.
another also is to protect his father. i’m sure he knew about the prohibition of relatives of the top government officials to participate in government contracts. by not showing up in the records, they can’t pin any company joey runs directly to him.
(and i do remember J3 saying last night towards the end of the hearing to Teves i believe, “as a businessman, i believe you’ll understand if i wanted a certain degree of… flexibility.”)
on the numbers, it looks like i’ll have to run my own calculations, but the NPV and IRR results you got are dismal indeed. at a conditional 13.01%, the funds might be better off invested in government securities (at 4.824% on a 182d t-bill, i’d rather go for that than the ZTE deal. hahaha)
to think that one of things i remember from Prof. Neri in b-school is “invest wisely, especially if the money you handle is not yours.”
Ca T, to be fair to the ‘prosecutors’, they did not have Annexes A to K where the details can be studied. If ever they’re at fault, it’s in not asking for these documents earlier.
cvj,
I read that someone was asking for the feasibility study of the project.
Precisely, cvj, it is their fault.
To investigate a project that is alleged to be overpriced, what we need are numbers and not testimonies.
this is what i have been harping about. The people or “prosecutors” of Gloria are doing her a favor by not doing their homework. If they know nothing about broadband or knowhow on this latest technology and determining the economic viability of the project due to the absence of Neri, then they could invited some experts.
Awa ako oo sa mga senador na makapagsalita lang wala namang laman ang sinabi.
You’re right on that Ca T. On the technology (i.e. cost) side, they have to get the bill of materials for hardware and software so they can compare it with the prices of equivalent hardware and software in the market. They should also factor in the refresh period because hardware and software becomes obsolete, and as importantly, the maintenance cost increases over time. In terms of maintenance costs, if we assume 10% of the equipment price per year then that’s 20 Million USD per year or an addition 340 Million USD for 20 years(assuming 3-year warranty). In terms of operating the equipment (under ‘Managed Services’), they have to cost in the cost after the 18 month period when ZTE staff manages the equipment expires, which is at least 700K USD per month. If they project a 20-year life, then that’s another 155 Million USD ((240 months – 18 months) x 700K.
We want Luli, we want Luli! Surely Manolo can reconstitute what is going on in side Luli’s head.
Like all ensemble TV dramas, it’s time for Luli Arroyo to shine! Surely she has some choice lines to deliver! It’s very entertaining….
Ooops, me shut up now. Toy soldier Esperon just said he supports martial law…..
In a way, hvrds is right: “And for a corporation that he claimed he owns, a paid-up capital of 325,000 bidding for billions worth of project is for me as a corporate account something fishy. I share the opinion of Enrile.”
But you see, hvrds, that is the common practice in Pinas. A group spots a potential project for govt and then they set up a shell company that does the leg work, the consulting bit, and only after they (that group) land the contract do they start opening the capital to would be investors. Bit hullaballo way of doing business one must admit.
Hi-tech European companies that want to do business with govt have gotten used to dealing with Pinoy companies doing it this way. Most of the time, these Pinoy companies are actually just their agents and are signed up as their consultants but along the way, the Pinoy brokers begin to represent themselves as the bona-fide investement and corporate partners of their principals.
There are companies in Pinas that could be rightly called partners like EEI, DM Consunji (although they are in public works), Keppel Philippines, etc. but most of the time, these companies do not have the profile of “brokers” and yes, let’s be frank, “fixers” that foreign companies need to land the business so while they may use them as “partners” for the engineering part of the project, they sign up with consulting companies like Joey’s to do the first and most important part of the job: to sell.
These consulting firms in Manila that act as brokers and country salesmen for the European companies (even for US companies like Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumann, etc.) are a dime a dozen in Pinas.
Joey’s company must have been one of them… but that doesn’t take away the fact that these companies do most, if not all of the leg work and in a way, are the de-facto in country salesmen of those foreign companies and must be recognized as such.
Therefore, he has credibility – could be believed – when he says that he or his company has the financial and technical support, of his principal.
To follow on: A company like ZTE (the original in China) that has now a turnover of something like 2 billion Euros but its capital is significantly less on paper could outbid anyone in Europe today for a project which is triple or quadruple its capital on paper.
Re cvj’s “On the technology (i.e. cost) side, they have to get the bill of materials for hardware and software so they can compare it with the prices of equivalent hardware and software in the market.”
Actually this is the easiest bit for government to do and they could do this without any problem if they really want to.
The more difficult bit would be obtaining that bit coming under “operating the equipment (under ‘Managed Services’)” because this is where some companies bloat the cost 10-fold.
I wonder if the cost of the ZTE proposal covers the expropiration costs (land) for the installation of their technology… If so, that bit could also be bloated several times, that’s something that foreign companies cannot accurately cost immediately.
Today is CommissionER Abalos’ 73rd birthday!Let’s be nice to him please.
Benjamin Abalos is in the “legacy phase “of his very distinguished career
1)Abalos claims to have supported himself through college by working as a janitor, factory worker, and a caddy at the Wack Wack Golf and Country Club.
2)In 2001 Abalos was appointed chairman of the Metropolitan Manila Development Authority (MMDA), a post he held until the following year.
3)Abalos was appointed Comelec chairman in 2002.
His major achievements in Comelec:
a)Computerization Program: Comelec had awarded the contract to Mega Pacific Consortium – an entity that had not participated in the bidding process – and MPEI did not meet eligibility requirements. The deal was thumbed down by the Supreme Court.
b)2004 elections:”Hello Garci”.
c)2007 elections:”Lintang Bedol” and the “election” of the 12th senator(from Maguindanao)
4)Broker for ZTE deal.
Happy Birthday “DADDY CHAIR”!!!
MBW, your description has a familiar feel to it as in the 90’s, even the local IT vendors had to tie up with these Consulting companies for mega-bids in the Public Sector. They are needed for the purposes of political connections as well as financial backing (for investment cases like BOT/BOO’s). The IT Company normally acts as a sub-contractor to the Consulting company.
On the technology side, the game was to come up with technical specifications that could not be met by competitors or at least make it hard for them to match at a low price. On the financial side, non-traditional concepts (at that time) like Build-Operate-Transfer (BOT) or Build-Operate-Own (BOO) were proposed.
It’s evident that the same is happening in the case of automating the elections.
Re Cat’s “If they know nothing about broadband or knowhow on this latest technology and determining the economic viability”
I would be surprised if none of those Senators (especially the young turks) don’t know something or a a bit about this technology – this technology is not defence secret anymore. One doesn’t have to be an engineer to have a ‘global’ knowledge of how it works. All they have to do is to get a ZTE brochure translated in English and to have a copy of the presentation materials from ZTE to obtain the desired info.
cvj,
Re “It’s evident that the same is happening in the case of automating the elections.”
I can almost guarantee you that this is what’s happening in the automating the elections
bencard,
delayed reaction:
dead ma means parang walang nagyari….
dead ma= patay malisya as tdc said.
it is dead malice if transalted in barok=naabutan mo ba si barok,btw…37 years ka na pal wala sa pinas di pa ako pinapanganak..36 pa lng ako eh.
__________________________________—-
rego,walang sumagot ng wifi query mo…
wifi is just a brandname for a wireless technology brand …
as for somos crowd
ewan ko,pero baka …. baka somos= spanish for “we are”
mb,
ano nga ba somos crowd?
cvj,
Actually “Build-Operate-Transfer (BOT) or Build-Operate-Own (BOO) were proposed.” come under the Self-Reliance Programme that was prevalent during the FVR years – it has actually been passed into law in RP. If I’m not mistaken, this is very much still alive as a law.
Birthday nga pala ni abalos
General costing of a hi-tech project, eg, radar fo NAIA may be simplified is as follows ex works:
Hardware: 30%
Software and Engineering services: 50 to 60%
Other costs: 10%
I agree, but it’s no longer that difficult now since Outsourcing Data Center operations is now an established practice. They can benchmark against outsourcing costs of telco’s like Telstra or Optus in Australia.
The way to see if this is over (or under) priced is to see the proposed scope of services, the proposed Outsourcing organization – including manpower and skills requirements plus management overhead and include cost of facilities (office space, electricity etc.) to get the fully burdened costs.
One thing that strikes me as odd is that the Engineering Services seems bloated considering that this is just a relatively simple project, i.e. equipment set-up and deployment. (Of course, the Annexes might reveal a good reason for the cost, such as a complexity that i wasn’t aware of.)
GMANews.tv has scooped everyone with Neda board meeting minutes.
cAt, cjv and MBW may find it interesting:
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/61443/Cabinet-split-on-cost-benefits-of-NBN-overlap-with-CyberEd
cvj,
I agree totally:
“The way to see if this is over (or under) priced is to see the proposed scope of services, the proposed Outsourcing organization – including manpower and skills requirements plus management overhead and include cost of facilities (office space, electricity etc.) to get the fully burdened costs.”
There will be no problem getting straightforward quotes from overseas companies (not sure about ZTE in China though), particularly from European companies.
Matter of fact, am pretty sure Pinas could easily obtain them off the shelf from companies that have teamed up with ZTE like Orange, Vodafone, etc., etc.
Thanks, Mlq3… I’m on it now; very interesting.
Right off the bat: How can this project be advantageous to govt if the financing terms are based on commercial loans?
MBW, the NAIA radar project had a good deal of application development, customization and testing. For this Broadband project, i would have thought this portion would be lesser. One local Telco’s billing system, for example, was implemented for less than 20Million USD.
Mlq3, thanks also…will get on it as well.
“Re Cat’s “If they know nothing about broadband or knowhow on this latest technology and determining the economic viabilityâ€Â
kahit naman yung old timers bigyan mo lang ng analogy,ayos na…
maiba tayo.yung iba kelangan na ng sharpenners:
sino ba pinaka gurang dyan si enrile mga 84 na yata na almost or more than half a century of practicing coroprate law could not squeeze within three minutes why joey is not one of the incorporators of the various companies.
cvj,
Re “One thing that strikes me as odd is that the Engineering Services seems bloated considering that this is just a relatively simple project, i.e. equipment set-up and deployment.”
Agree but if you team up with an engineering co in Pinas, the costs are driven up.
In Europe, companies usually have what they call a “barème”, i.e., some kind of a standard costing procedure so that engineering service will cost a certain amount but when one deals with Pinas for a govt project, that cost is driven up dramatically.
With regard to a hi-tech equipment, say a radar, it’s standard cost ex-works is what I enumerated above.
Now say a radar cover for Pinas from Batanes to the South should say cost roughly 100 million $, engineering services (management, training, maintenance, etc., etc.) including cost of money (financing, loans), in Pinas that cost would easily be bloated to 220 million $ if not more – frankly, it’s scandalous.
Enrile was born on Feb 14, 1929 if I’m not mistaken.
“ano nga ba somos crowd?KG”
They used to be called the con(~)o crowd.
“Somos” probably came from their song “somos,somos prostitutas, todas prostitutas de culi cili,la la la”(a bastardized Broadway song).lol
Karl;I was trying to see whether you were in the Senate session hall in the telethon yesterday
Re overlap:
very useful pala yung mga questions ni chair cayetano about the ict roadmap,which mentions intercionnnectivity of clasrooms
bilib na sana ako ke Formoso,palso at playing safe din pal ang sagot nya,na roadmap lag daw yon ,eto implementation na…
satellite technology has been the mode of cyber ed of our neighbors and if I may ask CVJ,in thailand,where the ambassadrss offered assistance for cybered,do they have a nationwide connectivity for their government?
MBW:Enrile was born on Feb 14, 1929
In packaged products ,that’s way,way beyond EXPIRATION date!!!
Kung c enrile na pinakabeterano dyan o pinakamatanda at naisahan o nalusutan ang almost sixty years of practice,joey3 is showing what he is made of.
baka sa no time limit, questioning mapasagot nya.
Mas matanda pa!
Juan Ponce Enrile (born February 14, 1924) is a political figure in the Philippines. (Wikipedia)
Karl, i don’t know as i’m not familiar with the telco infrastructure of Thailand.
Joker was born on January 05, 1927 in Naga, Camarines Sur .
His name “Joker” derives from his father’s fondness for card playing. His brother is called Jack.(wikipedia)
Ok cyber ed is also about the loan from chinese….
digressing a bit re: can cybered be incorporated to nbn?
since no one is sure of the upgradability features of broadband if it could feature seamless video,then all we need are the dvds and cds of the knowledge channel and implement asap….
parang ang dali ano?
ano nga pala ang mangyayari sa nasimulan ng abs cbn foundation,to be continued lang o scrap na pag me cyber ed?
we need this(nbn) for sure one day,but a lot of questions will have to be asked and asked before being asked again.
Karl,
“we need this(nbn) for sure one day”
You need it now… but of course, not at just any cost.
thnx tdc – knew he was born sometime in the 1920s.
thnx tdc – knew he was born sometime in the 1920s.
I saw an TV interview with Romulo Neri this afternoon.Heavily guarded .4 security vans just to go to his CHED office.Is he being protected or under custody?(he normally travels alone).He looked pretty nervous.
He is a key player in the NBN deal.
Mlq3,
Curioser and curioser: “Concession Buyer’s Credit of Chinese Government with a 10-year term, including 3-year grace period and 7-year repayment period).”
That’s definitely not a soft loan. Such terms and conditions could be had with any private bank!
Re: “P397 million” refers to “the costs of the management team from DOTC that will be dedicated to the NBN project (at PhP99.25 million per year for the 4-year implementation period to cover personnel, office expenses, travel expenses, among others),” the minutes said.”
Wonder how many people will be dedicated by DoTC known as DoTC team to the project for 4 years at a cost of PhP99.25 million per year! That’s a lot of people if we go by the minimum wage law in Pinas (technicians may cost a little more but just the same…)
mbw:knew he was born sometime in the 1920s.
Muy viejo y malo…Sept 21,1972
OK, this is even curioser and curioser, the DoTC team that will be dedicated to the job is a MANAGEMENT TEAM (what did I tell you, the Pinas side of management cost is one of those costs that’s disproporionate to the entire cost):
“Project management of P99.25 million per year for the 3-year implementation period will cover the personnel, office expenses, travel expenses, among others,” the March 29 report said.
This is precisely the kind of technical specifications-hype game that vendors play (that i described at 7:46pm above). What’s ‘4G’ anyway and why would the Barangays and/or schools need it (as opposed to something more basic like schoolbuildings or higher salaries for teachers)?
Tell you what Mlq3,
In theory, when a major multi-billion peso project is decided for implementation in less than a year, there’s a call for rejoicing.
How wonderful it would be for Pinas if only decisions were made for these projects to be implemented and if they weren’t tainted, i.e., costs bloated, corruption ridden, etc.!
You described Gloria often to be a hands on micro management prone sort of leader, i.e., quizzing line by line of the budget proposal to Congress, etc.. Yet, this NBN deal smacks of half-baked scrutiny if ever it was scrutinized.
Just look at this:
On March 26, 2007: “special joint meeting” of the NEDA Investment Coordination Committee, Cabinet Committee and Technical Board,
The ICC-Cabinet Committee and Technical Board of NEDA had serious doubts about the “economic viability” of the project. Too, they wanted to be further assured that it would be good for the government to have its own backbone, rather than use private sector services.
On March 29, 2007, the NEDA board approved the project,
On April 21, Transportation Secretary Leandro Mendoza signed in China the $329-million “provisional contract” with ZTE.
On the same day, Trade and Industry Secretary Peter Favila signed, also in China, an agreement for a separate China government loan of $504-million (P22.77 billion) for the CEP.
Also on April 21, Mrs Arroyo flew to China for a few hours to attend an economic forum in Hainan province…
At the application layer – no. At the infrastructure layer (cables, equipment) – yes, it should. I don’t know the value of broadband delivered video as opposed to just broadcasting the Knowledge Channel over TV. Unless there is a compelling application that calls for it, i don’t see the value of extra spending on these gee whiz features.
As indicated in the NEDA meeting minutes, the government is better off riding on top of services of existing telcos . If they are not getting a good deal from existing telcos, they can do a number of things:
1. Use their bargaining power to extract more favorable rates from the telcos.
2. Work closely with telcos to see what are their cost pressures are (e.g. frequently bombed cell sites, revolutionary taxes) and see whether they can invest together and reduce those costs. Maybe government can help secure concessional loans for portions of the infrastructure that can be upgraded and shared by the telcos. Setting up a separate infrastructure in a business it is not familiar with is not a well-considered option.
That sort of relationship with businesses is what economist Dan Rodrik calls ’embedded autonomy’ which is half-way between cronyism and arms-length interaction.
cvj,
Agree! “This is precisely the kind of technical specifications-hype game that vendors play, i.e., 4G vs 3G…
Recently, the AFP fell for the same trap with regard their night vision goggles equipment!
Company A that lost the bid said theirs was 4th generation while Company B that won the bid per original tech specs of AFP was only 3rd generation and to be quite honest, losing Company A’s 4G specs were exactly the same as winning company B’s 3G specs.
Re cvj’s “Setting up a separate infrastructure in a business it is not familiar with is not a well-considered option.”
Bad option I’d say…
Wow MBW, from the timeline you showed, it looks like the move-on crowd’s philosophy of “los[ing] our freedoms and our rights just to move this country forward” has really paid off. Such efficiency! 😉